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	<title>Comments on: The Courage of the Godly</title>
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		<title>By: Davy Stephenson</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Davy Stephenson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I forgot to say the convant was in Venice Italy and on what another writer has nentioned about the number of children abused in the schools in the US compared to Ireland, 

it doesn&#039;t matter how big the counrty is or how many children live in those countries, it is still the same kind of abuse, and should be punished accordingly, the church failed those parents and the victims in the first place, so we now need to wake up and deal with it in the propper way, you sometimes have to be cruel to be kind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to say the convant was in Venice Italy and on what another writer has nentioned about the number of children abused in the schools in the US compared to Ireland, </p>
<p>it doesn&#8217;t matter how big the counrty is or how many children live in those countries, it is still the same kind of abuse, and should be punished accordingly, the church failed those parents and the victims in the first place, so we now need to wake up and deal with it in the propper way, you sometimes have to be cruel to be kind.</p>
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		<title>By: Davy Stephenson</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Davy Stephenson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is all a terible thing when an unjust is shielded by the business in question, and the guilty party is left unjudged by their own to carry on preaching their words not to do what they have done under a falsehood.

If cruelty is a basis for a religion then god help them,

My mother was sent to a convant during the last war and brought up by the sisters of mercy, as a six year old child she once asked a plain and honest question about the good book, where she was swiftly lifted and dragged outside and made to kneel on her bare knees on sharp gravel until she bled profusly, this is the kind of lenity they showed to her, I dare not repete what some of the other pupils saw, their own followers new born left upon the steps comes to mind.  

Our children are our future and should not be exposed to any religion until they have at least read some of the bible for themselves, or are at an age where they can understand what the good book is saying without any in or outside influence.

A perfect example of this is from my own experiences, when mother came to pick us up from what she thought was a sunday youth club, where we were told stories from the good book and were then asked questions afterwards, if you got the question right they threw you a sweetie, she caught them in the act and the roof lifted, we never went back there by the way, and got sore ears on the way home for not telling her the sweeties were awfully god. 

Any church does not follow the book as it was written and have changed certain parts of it to suit their own ways, is it right and just to sin every day of the week and then forgiven for those sins on a sunday, this is why those guilty parties have been undiscovered for so long, their own rules contradict what they are doing and saying.

One of the biggest crimes of late was the total and systamatical destruction by the Romans at the library of Alexander, who knows what they found there which was so important to their cause to make them destroy everything, just like the good book says we will never know will we.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is all a terible thing when an unjust is shielded by the business in question, and the guilty party is left unjudged by their own to carry on preaching their words not to do what they have done under a falsehood.</p>
<p>If cruelty is a basis for a religion then god help them,</p>
<p>My mother was sent to a convant during the last war and brought up by the sisters of mercy, as a six year old child she once asked a plain and honest question about the good book, where she was swiftly lifted and dragged outside and made to kneel on her bare knees on sharp gravel until she bled profusly, this is the kind of lenity they showed to her, I dare not repete what some of the other pupils saw, their own followers new born left upon the steps comes to mind.  </p>
<p>Our children are our future and should not be exposed to any religion until they have at least read some of the bible for themselves, or are at an age where they can understand what the good book is saying without any in or outside influence.</p>
<p>A perfect example of this is from my own experiences, when mother came to pick us up from what she thought was a sunday youth club, where we were told stories from the good book and were then asked questions afterwards, if you got the question right they threw you a sweetie, she caught them in the act and the roof lifted, we never went back there by the way, and got sore ears on the way home for not telling her the sweeties were awfully god. </p>
<p>Any church does not follow the book as it was written and have changed certain parts of it to suit their own ways, is it right and just to sin every day of the week and then forgiven for those sins on a sunday, this is why those guilty parties have been undiscovered for so long, their own rules contradict what they are doing and saying.</p>
<p>One of the biggest crimes of late was the total and systamatical destruction by the Romans at the library of Alexander, who knows what they found there which was so important to their cause to make them destroy everything, just like the good book says we will never know will we.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabio P.Barbieri</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fabio P.Barbieri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul Fauvet&#039;s silly screed, with his complete ignorance of any real history, is evidence of what we are really talking about here.  And it is not a crime ring in Ireland fifty years ago, however odious.  It is the politics of hatred, ignorance and persecution right here, right now, with people who seriously believe that indulging their pitifully ignorant loathing of Catholics is not only just but virtuous, and therefore seriously contemplate the destruction of the Church.  Mr.Fauvet is waiting for the Gulag.

As for apologizing to anyone here... do be serious, just this once.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Fauvet&#8217;s silly screed, with his complete ignorance of any real history, is evidence of what we are really talking about here.  And it is not a crime ring in Ireland fifty years ago, however odious.  It is the politics of hatred, ignorance and persecution right here, right now, with people who seriously believe that indulging their pitifully ignorant loathing of Catholics is not only just but virtuous, and therefore seriously contemplate the destruction of the Church.  Mr.Fauvet is waiting for the Gulag.</p>
<p>As for apologizing to anyone here&#8230; do be serious, just this once.</p>
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		<title>By: paul fauvet</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[paul fauvet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 11:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barbieri seems not to have realised that the Roman Catholic Church claims to be the authentic, sole, infallible voice of God on the planet - as far as I am aware, this is not a claim made by the American Department of Education.

Furthermore, the horrors visited on children in Ireland are only the latest in a history of malevolence. 

Indeed, the crimes committed in Ireland seem almost petty compared with the centuries of the inquisition, the centuries of church approved torture and executions of &quot;witches&quot; and &quot;heretics&quot;, or the centuries of papal sanctioned anti-semitism, which paved the way for the Holocaust. 

If you want to see the roots of Nazism try the papal bull &quot;Cum nimis absurdum&quot; written by one of the more loathsome Renaissance popes, Paul IV, which created the modern concept of the ghetto. 

No doubt Barbieri thinks this is all &quot;irrational&quot;, because he believes that the unpleasant facts of history can be swept under a divine carpet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barbieri seems not to have realised that the Roman Catholic Church claims to be the authentic, sole, infallible voice of God on the planet &#8211; as far as I am aware, this is not a claim made by the American Department of Education.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the horrors visited on children in Ireland are only the latest in a history of malevolence. </p>
<p>Indeed, the crimes committed in Ireland seem almost petty compared with the centuries of the inquisition, the centuries of church approved torture and executions of &#8220;witches&#8221; and &#8220;heretics&#8221;, or the centuries of papal sanctioned anti-semitism, which paved the way for the Holocaust. </p>
<p>If you want to see the roots of Nazism try the papal bull &#8220;Cum nimis absurdum&#8221; written by one of the more loathsome Renaissance popes, Paul IV, which created the modern concept of the ghetto. </p>
<p>No doubt Barbieri thinks this is all &#8220;irrational&#8221;, because he believes that the unpleasant facts of history can be swept under a divine carpet.</p>
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		<title>By: The Horror, The Evil &#171; Shiraz Socialist</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Horror, The Evil &#171; Shiraz Socialist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 10:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] At Nick Cohen&#8217;s blog, Paul Fauvet raises the point that if a secular organisation were found guilty of such systematic and sustained evil &#8211; say, St Helens Council or the NCH children&#8217;s charity &#8211; the consequences for those responsible would be far harsher. Contra the self-pitying talk about the decline of religion, it&#8217;s clear that we still hold religious institutions to lower moral and legal standards than those to which the average citizen abides. If they could not condemn the perpetrators and send their hopes and prayers to the survivors and victims, it could have occurred to the pro-faith apologists that they should just stay out of this one. That they have not, illustrates the depths to which they are capable of sinking in defence of religion. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] At Nick Cohen&#8217;s blog, Paul Fauvet raises the point that if a secular organisation were found guilty of such systematic and sustained evil &#8211; say, St Helens Council or the NCH children&#8217;s charity &#8211; the consequences for those responsible would be far harsher. Contra the self-pitying talk about the decline of religion, it&#8217;s clear that we still hold religious institutions to lower moral and legal standards than those to which the average citizen abides. If they could not condemn the perpetrators and send their hopes and prayers to the survivors and victims, it could have occurred to the pro-faith apologists that they should just stay out of this one. That they have not, illustrates the depths to which they are capable of sinking in defence of religion. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Burns</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross Burns]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 10:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1181</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hope the next posting from Fabio Barbieri includes an apology for Ophelia Benson. I&#039;d like to think if the exchange had been in person, having been told what she has written, he would then have quickly apologised while she stood in front of him. I see little difference because on here the words have no sound that it should not be given.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope the next posting from Fabio Barbieri includes an apology for Ophelia Benson. I&#8217;d like to think if the exchange had been in person, having been told what she has written, he would then have quickly apologised while she stood in front of him. I see little difference because on here the words have no sound that it should not be given.</p>
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		<title>By: The Horror, The Evil &#171; Max Dunbar</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1180</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Horror, The Evil &#171; Max Dunbar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 10:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] At Nick Cohen&#8217;s blog, Paul Fauvet raises the point that, if a secular organisation were found responsible for such systematic evil &#8211; say, St Helens Council or the NCH children&#8217;s charity &#8211; the consequences would be far harsher. Contra the self-pitying talk about the decline of religion, it&#8217;s clear that we still hold religious institutions to lower moral and legal standards than those to which the average citizen abides. If they could not condemn the perpetrators and send their hopes and prayers to the survivors and victims, it should have occurred to the pro-faith apologists that they should just stay out of this one. That they have not, illustrates the depths to which they are capable of sinking in defence of religion. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] At Nick Cohen&#8217;s blog, Paul Fauvet raises the point that, if a secular organisation were found responsible for such systematic evil &#8211; say, St Helens Council or the NCH children&#8217;s charity &#8211; the consequences would be far harsher. Contra the self-pitying talk about the decline of religion, it&#8217;s clear that we still hold religious institutions to lower moral and legal standards than those to which the average citizen abides. If they could not condemn the perpetrators and send their hopes and prayers to the survivors and victims, it should have occurred to the pro-faith apologists that they should just stay out of this one. That they have not, illustrates the depths to which they are capable of sinking in defence of religion. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fabio P.Barbieri</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fabio P.Barbieri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 10:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What some of you do not seem to know is that child abuse is more widespread in American state schools (where some statistics say that as many as eight per cent of children have been sexually abused by teachers or staff) than in Catholic schools.  That is a fact.  It is also a fact that all that was done in Catholic schools in Ireland was commissioned, tolerated and covered up for by the State.  Why then don&#039;t those among you who call for the destruction of the Catholic Church also demand the dissolution of the Irish Republic and of the American Department for Education?  Because you are in bad faith.  Because you are seizing on a scandal that is by no means exclusive to the Church, to feed your ancient and irrational hatred.  Because the Church is an easier target than a government, let alone the Federal Government of the USA.  Even in this country the case is the same.  Channel 4, to give them credit, have investigated abuser rings in the state child protection services for decades, but none of you would demand that the British child protection services be dissolved - let alone the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  That is what you are asking for the Catholic Church.  I am not asking you to think about it, because you are evidently unable to think where the Church is concerned, but I do want to put down in black and white why your self-righteous blather does not exactly fill me with shame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What some of you do not seem to know is that child abuse is more widespread in American state schools (where some statistics say that as many as eight per cent of children have been sexually abused by teachers or staff) than in Catholic schools.  That is a fact.  It is also a fact that all that was done in Catholic schools in Ireland was commissioned, tolerated and covered up for by the State.  Why then don&#8217;t those among you who call for the destruction of the Catholic Church also demand the dissolution of the Irish Republic and of the American Department for Education?  Because you are in bad faith.  Because you are seizing on a scandal that is by no means exclusive to the Church, to feed your ancient and irrational hatred.  Because the Church is an easier target than a government, let alone the Federal Government of the USA.  Even in this country the case is the same.  Channel 4, to give them credit, have investigated abuser rings in the state child protection services for decades, but none of you would demand that the British child protection services be dissolved &#8211; let alone the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  That is what you are asking for the Catholic Church.  I am not asking you to think about it, because you are evidently unable to think where the Church is concerned, but I do want to put down in black and white why your self-righteous blather does not exactly fill me with shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Burns</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross Burns]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 09:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I forgot to add: not that someone would need to have children of their own to weigh up how insane some of his comments are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to add: not that someone would need to have children of their own to weigh up how insane some of his comments are.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross Burns</title>
		<link>http://nickcohen.net/2009/05/22/the-courage-of-the-godly/#comment-1177</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ross Burns]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 09:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nickcohen.net/?p=718#comment-1177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“It’s very distressing and very disturbing and my heart goes out today first of all to those people who will find that their stories are now told in public... Secondly, I think of those in religious orders and some of the clergy in Dublin who have to face these facts from their past which instinctively and quite naturally they’d rather not look at.&quot;

“That takes courage, and also we shouldn’t forget that this account today will also overshadow all of the good that they also did.” 

Dr Nichols, When asked if those who perpetrated violence and abuse should be held to account, he said: “Yes they should, no matter how long ago it happened.

It&#039;s unbelievable, isn&#039;t it.
Of what he says, I&#039;m glad he thinks the police should take action against those who do that sort of thing to children. 
But I can not see how there can be a defence for the comments he said.
Of the few things acceptable for reading here I&#039;d say you&#039;d either have to be highly paid in that organisation or you don&#039;t have children of your own, to go to his aide on those words. 
If Nicols had raped children of his own, would he think of the good their rapists might also have done alongside what they had done to his little girl or boy?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“It’s very distressing and very disturbing and my heart goes out today first of all to those people who will find that their stories are now told in public&#8230; Secondly, I think of those in religious orders and some of the clergy in Dublin who have to face these facts from their past which instinctively and quite naturally they’d rather not look at.&#8221;</p>
<p>“That takes courage, and also we shouldn’t forget that this account today will also overshadow all of the good that they also did.” </p>
<p>Dr Nichols, When asked if those who perpetrated violence and abuse should be held to account, he said: “Yes they should, no matter how long ago it happened.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unbelievable, isn&#8217;t it.<br />
Of what he says, I&#8217;m glad he thinks the police should take action against those who do that sort of thing to children.<br />
But I can not see how there can be a defence for the comments he said.<br />
Of the few things acceptable for reading here I&#8217;d say you&#8217;d either have to be highly paid in that organisation or you don&#8217;t have children of your own, to go to his aide on those words.<br />
If Nicols had raped children of his own, would he think of the good their rapists might also have done alongside what they had done to his little girl or boy?</p>
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